Welcome to EDAboard.com
Welcome to our site! EDAboard.com is an international Electronics Discussion Forum focused on EDA software, circuits, schematics, books, theory, papers, asic, pld, 8051, DSP, Network, RF, Analog Design, PCB, Service Manuals... and a whole lot more! To participate you need to register. Registration is free. Click here to register now.
RegisterLog in
- EDA Theory
- Elementary Electronic Questions
- Thread starternarayani
- Start dateSep 20, 2015
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
- Sep 20, 2015
- #1
N
narayani
Full Member level 2
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2014
- Messages
- 130
- Helped
- 0
- Reputation
- 0
- Reaction score
- 1
- Trophy points
- 1,298
- Activity points
- 2,327
Dear Sir,
I want to convert 18.65 dB into its Magnitude and Angle (Phase). Can you give formula to converting dB into its equivalent magnitude and angle (Phase).
- Sep 20, 2015
- #2
pancho_hideboo
Advanced Member level 5
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2006
- Messages
- 2,847
- Helped
- 767
- Reputation
- 1,536
- Reaction score
- 733
- Trophy points
- 1,393
- Location
- Real Homeless
- Activity points
- 17,490
You can never get phase infomation from dB.
You can only get magnitude infomation.
Mag = 10^(dB/20)
- Sep 20, 2015
- #3
KlausST
Advanced Member level 7
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2014
- Messages
- 25,647
- Helped
- 4,903
- Reputation
- 9,829
- Reaction score
- 5,664
- Trophy points
- 1,393
- Activity points
- 171,922
Hi,
dB is a value of ratio.
For values like voltage, current the above formula is correct.
For value like power "Mag = 10^(dB/10)" is correct.
Klaus
- Sep 20, 2015
- #4
N
narayani
Full Member level 2
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2014
- Messages
- 130
- Helped
- 0
- Reputation
- 0
- Reaction score
- 1
- Trophy points
- 1,298
- Activity points
- 2,327
then how to convert dB into Magnitude and phase. How to get phase values for dB.
- Sep 20, 2015
- #5
pancho_hideboo
Advanced Member level 5
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2006
- Messages
- 2,847
- Helped
- 767
- Reputation
- 1,536
- Reaction score
- 733
- Trophy points
- 1,393
- Location
- Real Homeless
- Activity points
- 17,490
I have following definition in Verilog-A code.
`define db20_real(x) (pow(10, (x)/20))
`define db10_real(x) (pow(10, (x)/10))
narayani said:
then how to convert dB into Magnitude and phase. How to get phase values for dB.
Again, You can never get phase infomation from dB.
- Sep 20, 2015
- #6
C
chuckey
Advanced Member level 6
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2010
- Messages
- 4,854
- Helped
- 1,309
- Reputation
- 2,624
- Reaction score
- 1,281
- Trophy points
- 1,393
- Location
- Southampton and holiday cottage in Wensleydale (UK
- Activity points
- 31,695
Do you read the replies? dBs are like percentages %, a ratio of two numbers. Nothing about phase angles at all!!
Frank
- Sep 20, 2015
- #7
pancho_hideboo
Advanced Member level 5
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2006
- Messages
- 2,847
- Helped
- 767
- Reputation
- 1,536
- Reaction score
- 733
- Trophy points
- 1,393
- Location
- Real Homeless
- Activity points
- 17,490
The followings are MATLAB code for dbv()=db20() and dbp()=db10().
Code:
function y=dbv(x)% dbv(x) = 20*log10(abs(x)); the dB equivalent of the voltage xy = -Inf*ones(size(x));if isempty(x) returnendnonzero = x~=0;y(nonzero) = 20*log10(abs(x(nonzero)));
Code:
function y=dbp(x)% dbp(x) = 10*log10(x): the dB equivalent of the power xy = -Inf*ones(size(x));if isempty(x) returnendnonzero = x~=0;y(nonzero) = 10*log10(abs(x(nonzero)));
Again, You can never get phase infomation from dB value, even if you use MATLAB or ANY.
https://edadocs.software.keysight.com/display/ads2009/db()+Measurement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel
Last edited:
- Sep 21, 2015
- #8
T
tggzzz
Advanced Member level 4
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2015
- Messages
- 114
- Helped
- 17
- Reputation
- 34
- Reaction score
- 16
- Trophy points
- 18
- Activity points
- 807
KlausST said:
Hi,
dB is a value of ratio.
For values like voltage, current the above formula is correct.
For value like power "Mag = 10^(dB/10)" is correct.
Not quite. The Bel is always a
powerratio, by definition. A deciBel is 1/10 of a Bel, hence the "10" in the well-known formulae.
Since power is proportional to the square of the voltage, expressing voltage ratios in dB introduces an extra "2", hence the "20".
- Sep 21, 2015
- #9
KlausST
Advanced Member level 7
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2014
- Messages
- 25,647
- Helped
- 4,903
- Reputation
- 9,829
- Reaction score
- 5,664
- Trophy points
- 1,393
- Activity points
- 171,922
Hi,
Not quite.
The Bel is always a power ratio, by definition. A deciBel is 1/10 of a Bel, hence the "10" in the well-known formulae.
Since power is proportional to the square of the voltage, expressing voltage ratios in dB introduces an extra "2", hence the "20".
Isn´t that what i wrote? At least i wanted to..
Klaus
- Sep 21, 2015
- #10
T
tggzzz
Advanced Member level 4
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2015
- Messages
- 114
- Helped
- 17
- Reputation
- 34
- Reaction score
- 16
- Trophy points
- 18
- Activity points
- 807
KlausST said:
Hi,
Isn´t that what i wrote? At least i wanted to..
Klaus
The end result is the same, but your explanation implied there was a difference for power and voltage, whereas there is no difference.
Sorry that it is so difficult to follow what we are discussing; by design this website strips out the context, hence the large amount of vertical whitespace between "Hi" and "Isn't".
- Sep 21, 2015
- #11
KlausST
Advanced Member level 7
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2014
- Messages
- 25,647
- Helped
- 4,903
- Reputation
- 9,829
- Reaction score
- 5,664
- Trophy points
- 1,393
- Activity points
- 171,922
Hi,
The end result is the same, but your explanation implied there was a difference for power and voltage, whereas there is no difference.
Yes, there is a difference. And you explained it correctely already.
1) for voltage: dB(U) = 20 * log(U_out / U_in)
2) for power: dB(P) = 10 * log(P_out / P_in)
the mathematical calculation is like you explained:
Klaus
- Sep 21, 2015
- #12
pancho_hideboo
Advanced Member level 5
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2006
- Messages
- 2,847
- Helped
- 767
- Reputation
- 1,536
- Reaction score
- 733
- Trophy points
- 1,393
- Location
- Real Homeless
- Activity points
- 17,490
Consider original point of this thread.
Decibel definition should be db20() not db10() for this thread point.
For example, consider S-parameter of Touchstone format
There are following three styles for complex value.
(1) dB/Angle
(2) Mag/Angle
(3) Real/Imag
Here Mag=10^(dB/20)
https://edadocs.software.keysight.com/display/ads2009/db()+Measurement
https://www.edaboard.com/threads/344348/
Last edited:
- Sep 21, 2015
- #13
KlausST
Advanced Member level 7
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2014
- Messages
- 25,647
- Helped
- 4,903
- Reputation
- 9,829
- Reaction score
- 5,664
- Trophy points
- 1,393
- Activity points
- 171,922
Hi,
Consider original point of this thread.
Decibel definition should be db20() not db10() for this thread point.
I read the original post and can´t find this.
Is "magnitude" always considered to be voltage or current? Can´t it be power?
Klaus
- Sep 21, 2015
- #14
pancho_hideboo
Advanced Member level 5
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2006
- Messages
- 2,847
- Helped
- 767
- Reputation
- 1,536
- Reaction score
- 733
- Trophy points
- 1,393
- Location
- Real Homeless
- Activity points
- 17,490
KlausST said:
Is "magnitude" always considered to be voltage or current?
Yes.
KlausST said:
Can´t it be power?
It can not be.
S-Paremeters are defined by Sqrt(complex power value).
This is a reason why db() is defined as db20() in Agilent(Keysight) ADS.
https://edadocs.software.keysight.com/display/ads2009/db()+Measurement
Last edited:
- Sep 21, 2015
- #15
KlausST
Advanced Member level 7
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2014
- Messages
- 25,647
- Helped
- 4,903
- Reputation
- 9,829
- Reaction score
- 5,664
- Trophy points
- 1,393
- Activity points
- 171,922
Hi,
The OP says nothing about S parameters nor Agilent (Keysight) ADS.
Klaus
- Sep 21, 2015
- #16
pancho_hideboo
Advanced Member level 5
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2006
- Messages
- 2,847
- Helped
- 767
- Reputation
- 1,536
- Reaction score
- 733
- Trophy points
- 1,393
- Location
- Real Homeless
- Activity points
- 17,490
KlausST said:
The OP says nothing about S parameters nor Agilent (Keysight) ADS.
Phase(Angle) is refered in this thread, so it is voltage not power.
Again, Decibel definition should be db20() not db10() for this thread point.
Last edited:
- Sep 21, 2015
- #17
KlausST
Advanced Member level 7
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2014
- Messages
- 25,647
- Helped
- 4,903
- Reputation
- 9,829
- Reaction score
- 5,664
- Trophy points
- 1,393
- Activity points
- 171,922
Hi,
Yes, here it is. The OP knows how to hide informations...
Klaus
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
Similar threads
F
EMC reports dB
- Started by FreshmanNewbie
- Replies: 5
Elementary Electronic Questions
N
First time dabbling into capacitors and it's this
- Started by n0quart3r
- Replies: 0
Elementary Electronic Questions
R
active inductor using ADS
- Started by rafal raed
- Replies: 1
Elementary Electronic Questions
F
[SOLVED]Component palette In ADS
- Started by Faizan shafi
- Replies: 2
Elementary Electronic Questions
K
How to Estimate Pin Toggle Rate in PrimeTime PX
- Started by Kenny0820
- Replies: 0
Elementary Electronic Questions
Part and Inventory Search
Welcome to EDABoard.com
Sponsor
- EDA Theory
- Elementary Electronic Questions